Proof Over Precedent

Proof Over Precedent is a weekly podcast discussing the work of bringing credible evidence to lawyers, judges, and decision makers, to transform the U.S. justice system into an evidence-based field. Listeners will learn from one-on-one interviews with experts in the area of access to justice–researchers, lawyers, professors, law students, data analysts, research participants, and anyone who has an interesting role in this growing area.

Cartoon depicting a mother and child on a stage between a bear representing Mother Up and holding cash out to them and a monkey representing Child Protection Services and being pulled off the stage.

Episode 42: Can Financial (and Other) Support Help Reduce Child Welfare Involvement in Neglect Cases?

This week, Proof Over Precedent speaks with Melody Webb, Founder and Executive Director of the Mother’s Outreach Network, a Washington, DC-based racial justice and anti-poverty organization that the Access to Justice Lab partnered with in its Mother Up pre-pilot study. Webb shares her vision for the study—which looks at providing Black indigent mothers with guaranteed income to support their children in an effort to reduce child welfare agency involvement—and offers perspective on the preliminary findings from the pilot.

Cartoon depicting Mothers Outreach Network (as a bear) giving money to a mother and child (drawn as horses) to buy (horse) shoes.

Episode 41: How Evidence-Based Research Could Transform the Child Welfare System

A2J Lab Director and Professor Jim Greiner sat down with five A2J Lab staff members to discuss “Mother Up”, a DC guaranteed income pre-pilot program with Mothers Outreach Network for Black mothers with recent CFSA involvement. The privately funded program explored how feasible it would be to conduct a larger study on the subject of guaranteed income, but this episode of Proof Over Precedent looks into why the Lab got involved with the program, how we gathered and analyzed data to apply to future evidence-leading studies, and what we’re seeing with results so far.

Cartoon comparing a household of neglect due to poverty vs. a household with a little more money running smoothly.

Episode 40: EmPwR Study–How Financial Support Means Family Support

The Empower Parents with Resources Study is the largest randomized control trial of the effect of unrestricted cash gifts on child maltreatment in the United States. Researchers aim to find out if a reduction in financial stress equals a reduction in child welfare involvement. In this week’s Proof Over Precedent episode, HLS J.D. candidate Julia Saltzman interviews researcher William Schneider, who explains the broad impact the study may have on families, caseworkers, and child welfare policy.

Cartoon depicts two workers -- one in law and one in medicine -- asking who the "fairest" is. The medical individual reveals a robot, while the lawyer reveals her own reflection.

Episode 38: Fair or Foul–AI in Medicine and Law

In this week’s Proof Over Precedent episode, HLS J.D. candidate Strong Ma discusses how public perceptions of fairness influence the adoption of AI and algorithms in medicine and law, two industries with varying levels of support and trust in AI. The podcast includes interviews with HLS Professors Jim Greiner and Jon Hanson weighing in on AI’s strengths and shortcomings in law, particularly as it compares to human decision making.

Cartoon depicts individual begging for cash bail to a robot judge who is refusing it

Episode 37: Navigating Pretrial Risk Assessments and Cash Bail Reform

Is ending cash bail a path to a fairer justice system? California attempted this route in 2018 with its SB10, which would have ended cash bail statewide and replaced it with pretrial risk assessment. The effort could potentially have avoided a two-tiered, wealth-based system, but it fell short with voters. This “Student Voices” episode of Proof Over Precedent dives into the debate over cash bail, what went wrong with the SB 10 campaign, and lessons for future bail reform efforts.

Cartoon depicts individual not being invited to an expungement party

Episode 36: Record Clearing Insights: How Data Can Impact Policy

This episode of Proof Over Precedent looks at predictive modeling research that could be used alongside policy research to answer the question, “What can we do to increase the number of criminal records cleared?” Researchers examined existing data on automatic record sealing in Pennsylvania and petition-based expungements in Kansas and adjusted criteria that could contribute to more effective record clearing. In the process, they made surprising discoveries on the state and future of criminal record clearances.

Cartoon depicting an individual seeking information on an arresting officer's badge number for a former offense, with the police captain noting that the officer no longer works there

Episode 35: Legal Hurdles in Expungement: A Kansas Case Study

In this episode of Proof Over Precedent, the criminal record clearing process gets a close-up examination. Researchers and a former field partner at Kansas Legal Services discuss an expungement study in Kansas that reveals the numerous, and sometimes prohibitive and illogical, steps it takes for an individual to clear a record – a task made exponentially more difficult and less likely to succeed without the aid of legal representation.

Cartoon depicting an individual throwing out a criminal record while heading into a Michigan job interview

Episode 34: Studying the Expungement Paradox

Expungement appears to have all the signs of promising policy including better job and housing outcomes for individuals whose criminal records have been cleared; low recidivism rates; and subsequently better societal outcomes. Where it falls short, researchers in a Michigan study found, is with accessibility and uptake. This episode of “Proof Over Precedent” looks at the findings and dives into the challenges of studying expungement and the areas where the record-clearing process could be improved.

Cartoon depicting a soccer referee adding barbed wire to a prisoner's goal post, showing different regulations applied to prisoners

Episode 33: Are Federal Regulations Protecting Prisoners or Paralyzing Research?

This episode of “Proof Over Precedent” brings together IRB Director Shannon Sewards and A2J Lab Faculty Director and podcast host Jim Greiner to talk about the complexity of ethical research involving incarcerated individuals and the balance between maintaining those ethical standards and advancing social and behavioral research. The discussion also delves into the differences between protections for biomedical research and those for behavioral research.

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